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164: Exquisite Consent with the Brotherhood Community

Oct 16, 2018

While a lot of men are freaking out about the #MeToo movement, some of us are finding that embracing ever more exquisite levels of consent and attunement with women is the path to everybody getting more of what they want. Robert Schwenkler, Peter Rubin, and Joshua Hathaway from the Brotherhood Community explore the challenges and paradoxes of consent and boundaries in the context of smoking hot sex and ravishing domination play.

164: Exquisite Consent with the Brotherhood Community

I’m very excited to present to you a fun dynamic show with three men I’ve known in different parts of my life. They are all exceptional teachers and leaders. It’s a great show talking about the concept of consent, power and domination. The role of the #MeToo Movement and how men can evolve and create space for women to feel deeply safe so their no can pleasurably turn into a yes.

I am excited and thrilled to invite the Brotherhood Community as we talk about a topic that’s near and dear to my heart. That is the concept of exquisite consent, powerful communication and connection to have the sex and nookie that you’ve always dreamed about. I want to give a little history about these three fine gentlemen I’m going to welcome on. I’ve known them from different parts of my life. Peter Rubin is an old friend of mine, expat of OneTaste. Peter, I remember this one time we went out after some lecture and you were such a pain in the ass. You were asking me those hard questions I didn’t want to answer. You up-leveled my behavior. We were walking in San Francisco right across the hotel and you were asking me these questions and I was like, “This guy is a pain in the ass, but I like him.”

I don’t remember that but it sounds like me.

I met Robert Schwenkler right after I left OneTaste. He came to my house in Venice with his girlfriend at the time, Natalie. He interviewed me on one of my first podcast interviews. I remember having a blast and being touched by your curiosity, your sincerity and your warmth. I’m excited to have you on the show. We’ve been friends ever since. Joshua is a man I know least personally of the triad, but his reputation precedes him as the wild man he is. I have enjoyed his shower videos many times that you can watch on his Facebook wall. These three men are powerful leaders in the world. I’m excited to have them on the show to talk about this idea of consent and how important it is. Welcome, gentlemen.

Thank you, Rob.

What’s one thing that’s a lie for you? What’s one thing that’s turning you on around consent? Let’s start off with Robert.

In my personal life what’s one thing that’s turning me on about consent is the freedom that it allows to dive in with somebody. There’s a certain level of consent and container setting that gets created. I might say not have consent within that, so you can just dive into an experience and be in it with somebody but have that safety set up beforehand.

How about you, Joshua?

I realized how deeply I’ve been trained as a man to constantly test and push boundaries. I’ve learned how to actually step back and lean back and create space, which we can call consent, which is this slow space that I create, a space of safety. It’s just given me such deep insight into women. It facilitated such incredible intimate hot as fuck experiences. I’m just excited to explore more. I’ve just realized that women are turning around a lot of fear and a lot of well-established mistrust. It requires a very particular showing up with a lot of respect and a lot of care to bring forth the most delicious yes that they want to be able to give but having a hard time doing.

For me, I used to think of consent as something you do when you’re dating. Something when you’re establishing rapport with someone new. I’ve been in a monogamous relationship for the last months, and noticing that consent is a daily conversation. As I keep deepening into consent with my partner, the safety, the trust and the places we can go and our sex get hotter and hotter. Getting consent to talk about our sex life on this podcast. It’s something that I could have skipped over. It was connected and a rich conversation. It’s worth it. Every time I lean in to listen to that voice that says, “You should check it about this,” it’s a beautiful investment.

Courage is just another name for getting intimate with your fear. Click To Tweet

We have a little talk before the show, and I said a couple of things. One I said is let’s just be rambunctious. Let’s bring a lot of energy. Let’s talk all over each other. This is a locker room talk that I think people do want to hear. I think it’s going to have a new definition of locker room talk publicly. I remember the times in a locker room being with those guys in high school. I was mostly a listener, but just feeling the intimacy of me that doesn’t happen often in my life and a lot of men’s lives especially as this generation continues. I know you are creating programs for men to get back together, to have what you call the Brotherhood Community. There can be these forms of talk and conversations in intimacy. I’m excited to see where this goes. The second thing is you all said we can talk about your sex lives. Morgan, my wife just says, “You just talk about it anyway.” She’s given me consent. After a few months of, “Don’t talk about that.” Robert, do you want to be the brave one to lead us off?

What I want to say is that my sex life is just far hotter, far richer and far juicier and way more alive than it’s ever been. For me, one of the main things that I can attribute that to and this gets down to the essence of what I stand for in the world, which is inner healing. For me primarily it’s been a process of finding out my nervous system and allowing it to come out of a frozen state and back into a state of aliveness.

I want to jump in and say being your friend for a few years, I just want to convey what a big deal this is. We have our team meetings and before we get to business, we all check in personally every single meeting. These days it’s all been about Robert’s sex life. Robert is saying like, “I’ve wanted this my whole life. My whole life I knew I could have this level of expression and dominance and it feels so good.” You’ve been blocked around it. The healing work you’ve been doing so relentlessly is opening this next layer up in you. I’ve seen it change your whole life. I see it changing how you lead, how you facilitate. It’s like you’re arriving in a way I’ve never seen before.

What I want to say to cap it all off and this could be an interesting piece to bring into the conversation is the level of untrustworthiness, trauma and manipulation that nice guys can often bring into interactions. On one end of the consent spectrum, there is the douche bag asshole dude who just pushes forward and gets what he wants. On the other end of the spectrum, there is the nice guy who is actually untrustworthy in an entirely different way. What I’m finding for myself as I dive forward into these experiences with women is I’ll take a step forward into my dominance and then all of this year comes up and I go, “Did I cross the boundaries? Am I too much? Is she triggered? I Am I doing this wrong? Am I hurting her?” I want to make a distinction at this moment between concern and fear. Any place where I’m bringing fear or my own trauma and do a sexual or romantic interaction actually makes me be less safe.

When you bring it consciously, when you notice the fear and you actually surface that at the moment, that’s a whole another thing.

It might not even be a concern, it might be care.

TL 164 | Sexual Consent

Sexual Consent: Most of the limiting factors in our lives are these socially inherited constructs of what is appropriate behavior and what’s not.

Concerns/care versus fear, which I think in the consent conversation fear gets equated to consent. I see a lot of traumatized men walking around feeling like they either need to check in every single step, or there’s so much fear that they can’t even take the first step at all. There is a rich conversation around what it means to create a safe container so that you cannot have to tiptoe around and walk on eggshells at every single step. You can create mutual agreements to just dive into the experience together.

That points to the concept of vulnerability. That’s all about exposing what’s in. From hidden to unhidden, to bring what’s in. Joshua, I see you as a man who is living out there. That’s my impression of you and that’s the feeling I have. How did you build that strength and that skill of living so vulnerably out in the world?

It’s just a natural part of who I am. Since before I can remember, I have been a person who when I see some boundary or limiting factor, I have to go and get on the other side of it. I would figure every which way how to climb out of my crib when I was a baby. I kept showing up in the living room while my parents were hanging out with friends. I just could not accept the limiting factors that were put on me. That points to some unconscious level of it, which is like I’m constantly rebelling against what I perceive as limiting factors. That struggle has also been a huge gift to me because most of the limiting factors in our lives are just up here. They’re these socially inherited constructs of what is appropriate behavior and what’s not. I’m constantly coming up against what my joyful desire is. I’m a fool. I literally have a deep-like fool coyote archetype in my life. I’m constantly playing with the rules.

It's hurt people who hurt people. Click To Tweet

In order to do that, I’ve had to make good friends with fear. It’s not like I’m not afraid, it’s not like I’m not aware of the potential consequences every time I do get vulnerable, every time I do step out beyond the expected or norm. I have to take a breath, check in with whether it’s in alignment with my principles and my values and take fear by the hand and walk fear in there with me so that I don’t become an asshole. I remain in my vulnerability and my expression not in a state of rebellion, but in a state of authentic alignment with my principles. It’s been a lot of what people might call courage work, but courage is just another name for getting intimate with your fear.

Going back to what Robert said, “Dominance and pin her down.” Those are charge-y words in this society. A lot of the conversation about #MeToo, I don’t know if you saw this thing about #HimToo. A mother posted this picture of her son who was in the Air Force or Navy and basically said that he is this brilliant wise son. He won’t date single women because he’s afraid of being accused of sexual assault. The guy came back and said like, “That’s my mom. She’s silly. That’s totally not true. I’ll date anyone.” He was knocking down. In this world where it’s so sensitive especially for guys to be out there in the world, to show their masculinity, to show their desire, to show their aggression and to show their dominance, how do you create a safe space for the woman and how do you create the safe space for that part of yourself?

In your language, I want to acknowledge for myself, Joshua and Peter, we’re all pretty straight. This is a heterosexual conversation. I do my work with gay men as well so I’m attuned to that language.

I can share a little story around that. I went through a big breakup followed by nine months of pretty much celibacy, just wanting to get a reset. Then I got back on the dating scene and felt like it was a very different energy with the #MeToo Movement and feeling I didn’t quite know how to move around it. I went on a date with a woman who’s now my partner. On the very first date, we were out of the restaurant and all I want to do is just brush her shoulder. It’s one of those innocent moments of touch. I found myself in this indecision like, “Am I allowed to even touch her shoulder?” I just said, “This seems so silly but I just was going to touch her shoulder casually.” I just want to check in, “Is it okay if I go with my intuition and just touch you in a platonic way or would you like me to check in about every micro step of escalation?” She says, “Go with your feeling. I trust you.” I had some tears in the middle of this restaurant. I realized just how much fear I’d taken on and how much fear I was carrying mostly out of care, a twisted version of care and concern. I realized that every time I hit one of those consent question moments, I could just check in and then get that next level of consent, that next level of trust.

There’s a distinction that I’m curious to hear you make, Peter, because what I’m also hearing you say is that for your sake also there’s a little bit of check-in that you need to happen, but ultimately you’re grounded enough in yourself. It’s like that insecurity gets released. You’ve done enough work on yourself that you’re not continuing to doubt yourself at every single step of the way.

TL 164 | Sexual Consent

Sexual Consent: We desperately need places where men can have their experience and receive their healing so that they can go out into the world and be more available, more present, and more empathic.

It was about how much is unknown. I didn’t know her. I didn’t know what her expectations were. With other women, they wouldn’t want that. They’d want me to check in. We’re all being pointed to consent, but it’s so personal to every relationship. With her, it seemed a little bit of design and then it freed me up to be more authentic. I said, “If at any point I go too far, will you speak up and say, ‘Could you stop that or slow down?” That created more safety for me. I think that’s the other thing that we’ve talked about is men need to feel safe. I needed to feel safe and part of safety for me is knowing that I’m not hurting someone and then disconnecting and me not knowing what happened. Making that overt agreement, “Will you speak up?” Let me be more of who she wanted me to be anyway, which is my authentic, expressed and bold presence.

I did an interview with Guy Sengstock. Some of the audience may know who he is, but I had a rich conversation for my first podcast. He made this analogy that stuck with me that I thought was beautiful about the vulnerability of masculine penetration. Literally, when you look at a man and his body when he’s penetrating with his cock, he’s leading with the most sensitive part of his body. There’s this acknowledgment that there’s a lot of power there and there’s an incredible amount of vulnerability in the act as well. On an emotional and energetic level, I find that it’s true. It’s vulnerable to put myself out there and I need safety too. I totally agree with you, Peter.

Do you feel like men have permission in society to express that fear? That vulnerability displayed, that awareness that you’re leading with a very sensitive part of your body? Do you feel like men in society are allowed to even express that?

For the most part, I’d say not. I consider myself very fortunate that I have a girlfriend and close friends who embrace my vulnerability. In terms of our mass culture and like Joshua said what men can be aware of, notice and name, you hear a lot of stories of men sharing that there are women say, “I want you to be more vulnerable. I want you to be more sensitive.” Then they go ahead and say something like that and she’s like, “Not like that. You still get to be the man.”

Men are trained to be on offense and we think women are being on defense, but if we create space for it, that's where the magic occurs. Click To Tweet

In the context of the #MeToo conversation, people will say, “You can’t center the male experience.” It can be a delicate line of guy’s feelings taking over the conversation, but the truth is that men are terrified.

Can you describe what that means, “Center the male conversation?”

Let’s say we’re having a thread or some conversation about Kavanaugh and Ford and what’s happening. The thread is all about what it’s like to be Ford and how vulnerable it was, how she’s now receiving death threats and then hiding, what this means about women and women’s level of safety in the culture. Some man goes on there and comments and says, “It’s vulnerable to be a man because we have sensitive cocks. When we lead with our cocks, it’s a vulnerable thing to do.” That’s not what we’re talking about. Centering the male experience when it’s seen as a negative is reflexively or reactively coming back to men. Let’s focus on the men here. In the context of patriarchy where men have been the focus of pretty much everything for millennia.

What I’m hearing is a lot of women are saying, “Let’s talk about what it’s like to be a woman. Let’s have some empathy and some compassion here.” I do think there’s some nuance and there’s context. In the men’s work we do, it’s a place where men can center their experience because it’s a conversation with a bunch of men in it. The benefit of that for everyone is that men get healed and men get supported. Robert, you say this a lot, it’s hurt people who hurt people. We desperately need places where men can have their experience and receive their healing so that they can go out into the world and be available, be more present and more empathic and have their attention out.

You asked earlier Robert about, “How do you cultivate the level of trust that ultimately can allow for the surrender and submission that creates those exquisite and potent and otherworldly domination submission experiences?” This is a fundamental principle of that is listen. Demonstrate a sense of understanding and attunement. Most men are walking around completely unaware of what it’s like to be a woman in our world. Do some research and get a sense of what that’s like so that when you are with a woman, you have a sense you’re anticipating in certain very natural ways like some of the things that might be coming up for her and you can speak to that. Be fully present. When you’re stepping into a thread where women are talking about their experience, listen. Reflect back what you’re hearing, acknowledge the validity of their experience even if you disagree with their conclusions. You can still acknowledge the validity of whatever fear, trauma, pain, mistrust, disappointment or frustration that’s alive. Cultivating the capacity to listen and be present with somebody is the number one way to cultivate the trust that we all want in our relationships.

TL 164 | Sexual Consent

Sexual Consent: If a woman is honest that she’s feeling closed, that’s the best gift that she can give to a man.

As Peter said, right now is not necessarily the time, especially without consent to leap into the conversation about women talking about your experience. This is a time to be listening in those conversations and then circle up with your men and let your men hold you around the experiences that are difficult for you. We have habitually as men in this culture turned our women into our therapists. We have burdened them with a huge load where the only place where we bring our vulnerability. That’s got to change for relationships to become the most exquisite versions possible in our world. We need to be having a trusted group of people who are not our intimate partner that we can bring our vulnerability to, get feedback from, get supported by and get our ass kicked a little bit by when we’re not showing up the way that we know we want to. That’s a big part of what the Brotherhood Community is cultivating among men.

There are so many different doors to open. The one I want to talk about is this word Joshua used, attunement. It’s a buzzword. To me, consent is about presence and attunement and also connected to your word, listening. Because to be in that dominant position with permission, the top has to surrender to the bottom. The top has to be listening exquisitely to all the fine little messages overtly and many messages. Would someone please talk about attunement and what that means to you, and how you teach men this foreign topic of listening underneath the words?

I’m almost chuckling to myself when you say, “Teach men,” because we don’t teach them, we break them open to their sensitivity or soften them up into their sensitivity. It’s not a teaching, it’s a very embodied experience.

Attunement is a beautiful practice. It’s one of the fundamental I think mindfulness practices of my life. My practice of attunements started with my practice of empathy literally like Marshall Rosenberg, non-violent communication, reflective listening and empathy. He was like, “How can I shut down all of my reactions and responses to what somebody is saying for a moment and give them the fullness of my attention? Listen deeply to what they’re saying, reflect it back and demonstrate to them and understand what they’re saying.” Out of curiosity for the reflecting back, what I’m saying is it’s a practice. That’s the number one attunement dojo that I have been in in my life.

The other attunement dojo that I have been in my life is my martial arts practice, specifically Shaolin, Kung Fu and Tai chi. We’re doing push hands exercises where there’s a bunch of what we call sensitivity exercises in this work. You’re learning to make micro-adjustments and subtle vectors of movement as your hands are on somebody and you are sparring with them. There’s a mental-emotional level of attunement and there’s literally a somatic level of attunement that we can have to the ways that bodies work. You’re not going to get it by listening to a podcast. You’re going to get it by committing to a practice in your life somewhere along the way, starting to dive in and show up, circle up with men, and practice empathy with somebody. There are some very concrete and specific practices you can use cultivate it but it’s not going to happen, unfortunately.

There's no formula to great sex. It's deeply listening to the next thing that she wants to happen. Click To Tweet

Attunement is very simple and it begins with a felt sense. Many men come from the control tower of the brain, “How do I say the right thing to get this result?” It’s about being in the body, being in your emotional center and allowing yourself to open your heart and be impacted by someone or impacted you say, “When you said this, here’s what I felt.” The basis of attunement is that emotional feedback loop. In any moment, we’re either attuned, not attuned or somewhere in between. It’s about knowing at the moment is this connection is on? Is it flowing? We all know what it’s like to feel in the flow with work, with sports and relationship. We all know what it feels like when it’s crunchy like two forks clanging together. It’s this open inquiry it’s like, “What do I need to let go of? How do I shift or soften to get more attuned?”

I want to clarify when I say that we don’t teach men attunement. We’re not sitting there giving them a lecture. We create powerful experiences for them to experience what Peter is talking about. For them to experience their own inner world in a way that they never have. Through that to be able to experience the inner worlds of other men during our weekends.

It’s hard to feel this world through all the armor that we wear. In order to feel this world around us, in order to be sensitized to the currents that are happening, we have to peel off that armor. We have to soften, we have to relax our shoulders. You can do it at this very moment. Anybody who’s sitting can take a breath. Your shoulders softened and your body sinks a little more deeply into the chair that you’re sitting in. Slow down a little. Just that much that has sensitized you to sensations in your body into what’s happening around you in the way that you can do it again and again.

I think you said this twice, Joshua, and I think it’s spot on. When you were talking about Marshall Rosenberg, NLP and also about the concept of putting down your defenses, putting down your concepts. What happens a lot in relating is the terminology of, “I’m right and you’re wrong or you’re right and I’m wrong.” We’re in this conflict, this antagonistic relating. In the antagonistic relating, there’s no chance for collaboration. Even if your viewpoint is so important to you, so beautiful, so masterful and you’ve read about it, you’ve written about it and it’s epic, if that viewpoint is creating a disconnection between you and the person you want to be intimate with, you do have to put it down. That’s where the attunement can occur because you want to have attunement through your static viewpoints.

I wouldn’t even say necessarily you have to put it down, but usually that’s the case of you need to listen first. I’d like to say, the best way to lubricate somebody’s ears is to listen to them. If you want to be heard, take some time to understand somebody and listen and validate their perspective. Even if they don’t agree with you, they’ll hear you a lot better about whatever is going on for you. I think there’s a key thing here that I’m landing on. The #MeToo Movement has woken me up to the way that women’s nervous systems, by and large, are in a state of fear and trauma in our culture from thousands upon thousands of paper cuts and some huge gashes and wounds along the way.

It’s easy as a man. Men want to be right. If you say anything that makes us not right, then we can go into feeling blamed, feeling shame and shutting down or rebelling against it and fighting it. What men have to understand is that this is not personal to you, but it’s your responsibility to show up with an awareness of it and navigate the space with exquisite sensitivity and care. We don’t necessarily choose what our inheritance is but we have to choose our legacy. There’s something powerful happening where women are finally asking men like, “I need your help to feel safe in the world.” We do that by leaning back, by understanding and by slowing down.

Women’s nervous systems in my experience are in a state of default no to things that they were actually want to be a yes to, but are in a constant at least low-grade defensive state. As a man, I can show up fully present and be relaxed in my own nervous system. Showing up authentic and honest about what I desire without any sense of demands that you have to be a collaborateur and getting my needs met. Then there’s this space that opens up and there’s a softening that happens. That is what I call consent. That is a deep level of consent and attunement that allows for the yes to emerge. What somebody wants to emerge and everybody wins when that happens.

I want to jump in on slowing down. That’s the biggest lesson I’m learning in my relationship and my sex is that if a woman is honest that she’s feeling closed, that’s the best gift that she can give to a man. Women are conditioned to push through their closeness to get open to please men. A lot of women have that conditioning. That leads to some shallow sex and a disconnect for everyone. When you’re with someone who owns their need for slow, “I’m feeling some trauma come up or I’m feeling some closeness. Can we go slow and warm up at my pace?”

She may not be saying it with her words.

Sex can be a passionate discovery. It's the chance to bring in our curiosity in all these different pieces. Click To Tweet

She might not be saying it with a word, but if you sense her body is closed, her body is needing something slow, you take the time to touch her, to draw her out, to be with her with no agenda at all just being present and appreciation of that moment and any openness that is there. She could be 90% close and 10% open. Being with that, this metaphor is maybe cheesy but it’s accurate it’s like a flower. She blossoms like a flower and you get an openness that’s equal and opposite to the closeness. As much as she trusts you with her closed heart or with her closed body, that’s the amount that you get to experience of her openness. You’re entrusted with that. I don’t think men get that. I don’t think men get how beautiful that journey is to be with a woman in her honest expression. That’s a way of helping her unwind her body from all the trauma of patriarchy and the thousand paper cuts that Joshua alluded to. That’s what we need as men. That’s our living amends and it can be pleasurable. We could heal our culture through this pleasurable act of being with women and having some of the best sex of our lives.

There’s an immense level but I also want to say that it’s exactly the medicine we need to return to our wholeness and humanity. It’s not just that we’re giving this to women. This is what I want men to get. You’re not doing this for women. You’re doing this for yourself. You’re doing this to come home to your own humanity in a way that you have never inhabited it. When you do, when your nervous system is relaxed in the world, when you’re in contact with your own feelings and connected to the world, I promise you your life is going to just get hotter and more delicious every day. It gets harder and scarier too because you’re feeling everything including the deep blows, the grief, the sudden rage and all of the things.

Our greatest service is in our deepest pleasure. They are one and the same.

It’s so magical what you are saying. I get chills every time I do the show on different levels of different things. You’re expressing the truest paradox that is not known. It’s like we think men are trained to grab. We’re trained to be on offense and we think women are being on defense, but that yes is in there. It’s just if we create space for it and that’s where the magic occurs. It’s so alien to men to think, “If I have patience, if I don’t believe in scarcity, if I show up because this is what women want.” You are the keepers. He’s a keeper. Why he’s a keeper? Because he listens and if we listen, then the healing for all genders can occur. Thank you so much for eloquently expressing these viewpoints.

TL 164 | Sexual Consent

Sexual Consent: A lot of men are scared to give away our power. We don’t have to give away our power. The last thing the world needs is less powerful men.

I have a lover who is in a process of reclaiming her sexuality and part of that is that she’s in a celibacy phase and not doing any sexual penetration and listening very closely to her body and carefully. Any given interaction we have, it could be that we just snuggle. It could be that we have a very sexy time all over each other’s bodies. I said, “Can we play a game?” She was like, “What’s the game?” “I’m going to ask you if you want me to do something. The only answer that lets me do it is you saying, ‘Yes please.’” It was this consent game where I just started with, “Can I kiss your lips?” “Yes, please.” Every time I ask, “Can I take off your blouse?” “Yes, please.” “Can I take off your bra?” “Yes, please.” It was so juicy. It was so delicious. It was so hot for both of us. Any time there was even a pause before her answer, I hear that as a no. I would check in again if I wasn’t sure. There is a way that only “Yes, please” will do. When we give a woman permission, anybody permission to be in that full of choice and let them know that you’re going to have that level of choice throughout this interaction, it softens and opens everything.

If each of you wants to share your final thoughts, tie it up and then you can present how to get in touch with you at the end. Robert, you want to go first?

You and I spoke and you brought this beautiful piece of languaging in the conversation that I think speaks to men. You used the word optimization. Josh said, “It’s men’s responsibility to,” then we’re talking about reparations. I’m fundamentally in agreement with that. To a masculine-oriented man, it’s a simple equation. Is what you’re putting into it getting you the optimal output? It’s super simple. Do you want to optimize your sex life so that it can be off the charts? A lot of what we’re talking about is what you need to plug into the calculations so to speak in order to get that result.

I’m going to close with a brag and a comment. My woman calls me a sex god, which is amazing and a lot for me to receive. I’ve never thought of myself that way and she’s been helping me step into that and get the, “That’s who I am.” My experience of sex is continually not knowing what I’m doing, which is not to be confused with a lack of confidence. Every time I’m with her I have no idea, but somehow my body knows. This next moment will reveal itself. There’s no formula. I don’t feel like a sex god. It’s deep listening of what is the next thing that wants to happen? Is it me dominating? Is it me receiving? We have an incredible range in our sex. The one thing I love about it being with a partner and getting to know her body and all the places we can go. Whenever anything feels misattuned, just surrendering and being, “I don’t know. What’s the next thing?” I want to free guys from this idea that sex gods have all the answers. That is just utter bullshit. I think sex can be this passionate discovery. It’s the chance to bring in our curiosity and all these different pieces. I want sex to be this playground for more men where it’s not about performance, it’s not about perfection. It’s about safety, connection and play.

Thank you for doing what is challenging for people to say, “I’m doing something right or I’m labeling myself with this.” It’s such a challenging thing for us to feel our own power and our own acumen. Thank you for modeling that because that’s the first step as well.

When we surrender our privilege, when we accept the mantle of sensitivity, we actually become exponentially more powerful in the world. Click To Tweet

Power is the theme of what I wanted to share, which is that I think a lot of men are scared. We’re thinking we have to give away our power. We don’t have to give away our power. The last thing the world needs is less powerful men. We have to surrender our privilege. That’s all the unearned power that we have and it’s literally the guards, the armor that keeps us from being sensitized to the world around us. When we surrender our privilege, when we accept the mantle of sensitivity, we actually become exponentially more powerful in the world. We can use our power in collaborative ways instead of as power over in force. We become a collaborative force in the world that is empowered to alignment with our values. When I show up to listen, even if I’m not saying a single word, I’m in such alignment with my values and I’m transmitting a power that is actually magnetic and irresistible. Own that power and just let the privilege piece dissolve. It’s happening. Go with it.

The show is exactly as I expected. It’s phenomenal. Thank you so much for being on the show. Would one of you like to say to our audience how people can find you, brag about your events? How can people find you?

Go to We have a whole range of offerings from our M.A.N. Notes, which are inspirational notes from the MAN-iverse. You didn’t know it but the universe has a masculine side, and that’s the one who writes these emails. We have a podcast coming up that Robert’s been cooking up, Visionary Leadership Podcast. We’ve got free online calls once a month to build a community and receive coaching. We also have training called the Men’s Leadership Intensive.

We run it on a quarterly basis. That’s the chance for a guy to come in and get cracked open to these deeper truths about himself and his power in the context of what Joshua is saying. It shows up in a way that gets exponential richness, depth and results not just for you individually, but for the people around you too in a synergistic way

We’re going to do the book on December 6. My Indiegogo campaign is starting soon. Get some special perks and some lower-end coaching and free access to programs. Check me out on Indiegogo. There will be 30 days of Nine minutes at Nine Vulnerable Reveals about myself. Thank you so much. Go forth. Find the truth. For men, read this three or four times. If you’re in a place where you’re not gratified with your sex life, your relationship and your life, there are steps and practices that can move you from good to better. These three men are running a program that I highly recommend you check out to find those practices. They’re both exquisite and powerful in their own little niches to help you get to the place you want to be. You too can be a sex god.

Thank you so much, gentlemen, for being on the show, Peter, Robert and Joshua. Truly amazing sharing of wisdom, knowledge and passion. In specific little things, we can all do to create more connection, intimacy and mind-blowing sex between the genders. If you enjoyed the show, please go to iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify or your favorite podcast app and give us a rating, give us some love, give us some stars. Always, please tell a friend, enemy, critic, someone you want a little more intimacy with about the show. They can always visit me at Thank you so much. Go forth. Gets some nookie. I love you.

Resources mentioned:

About Robert Schwenkler

TL 164 | Sexual ConsentRobert Schwenkler leads men’s workshops internationally and has helped private clients from across 3 continents to triple their revenue, rekindle the passion in their relationships, and find deep levels of inner peace.

Many of his clients have achieved extraordinary success in past lives as Army Sniper Instructors, Hollywood Directors, and private yoga instructors to Saudi Arabian Princes. What they all hold in common is a commitment to live in full alignment with their deepest life purpose.

About Peter Rubin

TL 164 | Sexual ConsentPeter Rubin is a master coach whose superpower is vulnerability. In many ways, he’s a paradox of a man – both strong and highly sensitive, serious with playful things and playful with serious things.

He graduated from Stanford with a Master’s in Mechanical Engineering and is certified as a Master NLP Practitioner and Diversity Facilitator. He has been a full-time professional coach since 2010.

As well as leading men’s work, he helps visionaries give birth to their businesses.

About Joshua Hathaway

TL 164 | Sexual ConsentJoshua Hathaway, MA, is a Transformational Trickster, Trainer, Coach, and proud father.

He has 12 year’s experience teaching NonViolent Communication, private coaching and counseling with hundreds of individuals and couples, and leading Men’s Circles and retreats.

His No Bullsh!t brand communication trainings have been delivered extensively to private and corporate clients such as Zappos and LYFT.

He gently and humorously dismantles people’s Bullsh!t, delivers practical skill-building tools, and facilitates experiences that bring home the power and value of connection.


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