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173: Money Magic with Michelle Masters

Dec 26, 2018

Not many realize this but our relationship with money stems far deeper than the want for physical things it can afford us. It runs from how we grew up, to how we perceive our worth. Michelle Masters, NLP Trainer and Master Practitioner, traces our relationship with money with how our brains work beginning from the things we pick up from our childhood. She gets down into the concepts of NLP and Money Magic, giving us some history lessons and the basics of change work. She also distinguishes between the creature brain and the human brain, suggesting some thing to input new software that keeps us from repeating childhood behaviors. Finally, Michelle shows the three chair exercise that will have you rethink your relationship with money through your relationship with your parents.

173: Money Magic with Michelle Masters

I’m excited to have you back with a special guest, Michelle Masters of NLP Marin. I had the pleasure of working with her. I took a course with her in September that knocked my socks off. She promised more money and more energy coming in at the end of the class. I was like, “Yes, whatever.” It’s true. It worked. I went there specifically before the book launch because I wanted to find out where my internal blocks are and it works. I have to put it that way. She’s amazing. The work is amazing. This interview is truly amazing. If you want to find the basics of how to change your relationship to money, this is the place to be. You can also find out about her book and the courses she teaches. For more shows, please visit RobertKandell.com. If you are so inclined, I’d be so grateful if you leave a review and add some stars to your favorite podcast app.

I am super excited to be back after the book launch with my special guest, Michelle Masters, who Morgan was the one to point me out. She was the one who started to stalk her on her videos and listen. We would drive the car and listen to your talk. I’ve also heard about you and NLP Marin with many friends who speak specifically about the integrity of who you are in the world and what you bring into the world. I wanted to say your reputation preceded you of one, mastery and two, integrity, especially around this topic we’ll be getting into the concepts of NLP and Money Magic. I took the class in Marin in September. You said in the class, “You’ll take the class and all these things will happen to you.” Part of my New York cynical brain was like, “We’ll see what happens.” It’s been true. You’ve delivered on your promise, more energy, more clients, more money, successful book launch, etc. You talk your talk and walk your walk. I’m thrilled to have you on to the show. Welcome, Michelle.

Thank you. I’m glad to be here.

First, I’d love to chat about NLP because it means a lot of things to a lot of different people. I know enough about it to be dangerous. I probably misquoted it more times than I like to imagine. Maybe if you could give us a little history lesson and what NLP is.

It’s got a long and colorful history and some of it is incredibly boring. The net-net is some bright guys figured out a way to take people who were geniuses in their field, who could do things that other people with the same training couldn’t do. To try and notice what were these people, these geniuses are doing that was different, that was creating extraordinary results that they weren’t even aware they were doing. They kept modeling that down until they discovered some things that they could replicate the changes. If we do this thing that he did, this thing happens or if we do what she did here, this happens. In the intervening years, there’s been a lot more accumulated under the umbrella of NLP and some original discoveries as well about how people process their information and how that can be used to create change. It’s a bunch of tools and understandings are all around communication and change.

“Change work,” you said that term quite a bit during our time together. The practices you had to me felt both counterintuitive and intuitive at the same time. We would step on cards and we would move around in chairs. Can you give us the basics of what change work you seemed to have most powerful and how that works for people?

Perhaps the best analogy that most people will have an understanding of is software. As human beings, we have the software. A lot of what we do when we want to change is we often try to force ourselves. We try to use willpower. We try to use force. Imagine if your computer is running a software program that’s not delivering what you want, the willpower is not going to do diddly to change the software. You’re going to end up yelling at your computer. Trust me, I’ve done it. It doesn’t work. It’s not about willpower and it’s not about defeating ourselves. It gives us a way to figure out the software that is running and rewrite it so it produces what we want.

Like with software, when you rewrite software, it stays rewritten. You don’t have to encourage the software, “Come on, go. You can do it.” You don’t have to do affirmations, “You are a powerful software.” You don’t have to hold your software accountable. When it’s rewritten, it runs differently. This is what we can do with these NLP techniques is find out the patterns that are running in this case around money, but it could be around anything that is messing up our health, our relationship, or our money. Find out what’s running and revise it so that it’s naturally designed to produce what we do want. Those cards on the floor that is one way of creating new associations because human beings make associations faster than any other creatures. We’re association making machines. The beliefs we have, those all started as associations.

Most of the things that we believe about ourselves and the world are in place by age three and pretty much all of it by six. Those all started as associations. What a lot of people try to do is at 30 or 40, they try to create new beliefs, but the ones from three or four are still running. What this allows us to do is get access to the patterning that’s running from three or four and change that with new associations. This is what those cards on the floor allow us to do. When I’m working one-on-one with people, I can often do this in other ways. I can give somebody a squeeze on the arm to create a new association. When I’ve got 60 to 100 people in a room, I can’t. Unless I go seriously gnash, I can’t run around and squeeze everybody’s arms. These pieces of paper on the floor, they can do the same function.

This is a new thing for me, the concept that most of your belief systems are three to six. Many different teachers teach this. It’s important to believe that because as adults, we tend to be a little arrogant. We tend to think, “I am the master of my own domain. I am in control.” I can use willpower. I can use force, especially masculine aspects of ourselves, to dominate my will to do what I want to do. There’s that little three and six-year-old inside of us running the show, pulling the levers and pointing us in the direction that we’re not even conscious of.

They’re operating from different parts of the brain. That 30-year-old, 40-year-old is operating out of the cortex and that three to six-year-old is operating from a different area of the brain.

Please go over that because that was fascinating to learn that part.

Nobody gave us a user manual for our brain. We’ve got this incredible tissue up here doing amazing things and none of us know how to operate it. We tend to relate to it as though it is one thing like a monolith. There’s a bunch of different brains in their operating independently, occasionally in concert with each other, but the interfacing is spotty. You’ve got the cerebral cortex, the big shiny lobes we’re very proud of as human beings to lord over the rest of the animal kingdom and claim dominion. These would do things like abstract thought, creativity and meaning. Humans are meaning-making machines. We’re the only creatures to do time. There’s a whole lot going on up here. These are not fully developed until, for women, it’s somewhere between twenty and 25 years old. For men, it’s somewhere between 25 and 30 or as my friend, Carl, says, “Somewhere between 25 and death.” It is slower to develop in men.

TL 173 | Money Magic

Money Magic: There’s that little three and six-year-old inside of us running the show, pulling the levers, and pointing us in the direction that we’re not even conscious of.

We’ve been teaching this for a long time. My partner and I went on a jeep tour in Sedona and nobody else signed up for the tour. We had the guide to ourselves. He was telling us stories because he volunteers on rescue missions. He told us that 90% of the rescues they do are men, 30 and under. 90% of the snake bites they treat are men, 30 and under. He said, “Of those 90%, 95% are bites to the hands or the face.” These are not bites to the feet and ankles, which gives you an idea of what was going on right before the snake could add enough. They have a joke. What’s the first words of English a snake learns? It’s “Dude, hold my beer.” The circuitry that could say, “A selfie with the snake is not a good idea,” is not yet fully functional.

Consequences, that’s the last part of the brain that comes online. Then you have your emotions which come online, research says around birth. Our experiences, earlier. There’s the oldest part of their brain, the reptile brain, some people call it the creature brain. It is fully functional in utero. We share this with every creature on the planet. It’s in charge of your survival. It does not care if you are happy. It only cares that you’re alive. This cares if you’re happy. This only cares that you’re alive. For the first couple of years, kids are existing in an environment where very little of this is up and running, but this is on alert to make sure that kids survive.

The part that’s not running is the cortex. The part that is running is the reptilian brain.

The parts of the brain that could distinguish between a physical threat and an emotional threat, those don’t develop until much later. I meet many adults who aren’t tracking the difference between an emotion and a physical threat partly because of old patterning. A kid cannot tell the difference. For a kid, parents yelling registers for them as a potential death threat. Their system will go into full alert. The reptile part of their brain will do its best to make sure they survive. It will run either fight, flight or freeze. These are three options for survival. It will take a recording of what was going on. Let’s say mom and dad were arguing about money, all sorts of associations will get created about money, “Money is dangerous. Money causes arguments. Money is stressful. Money this, money that.”

In a perfect world, when a kid hit eighteen, their software would update. Unlike most people’s smartphones, our brains are not designed to update. All of us are running the original operating system. Imagine if you had a phone that was trying to use an operating system from 1980. This is what our brains are doing. At a certain point, the disconnect between what the 21st century parts of us are wanting to experience and the operating system we came in creates all kinds of trouble. What this work lets us know is this is finally a way to update the operating system without having to die and get reborn, which means going through middle school again. Who wants to do that?

I love the reading I’ve been doing. I read Karl’s book. It’s often the creature brain and the human brain, referred to as the cortex, are often in conflict. Your creature brain is saying, “I survived the abusive situation. Abuse must be right, so I’m going to attract an abusive situation.” The human brain is like, “No, I don’t want to be in another abusive situation.” The conflict between the two, the war between the two is often what I perceived the dichotomy we feel inside of ourselves. The decision, the unknowing. That’s such a huge impact when I read that for the first time.

The creature only cares about survival again. It will take a recording of whatever’s going on and if they don’t die, then the creature regards that as survivable. In the worst-case scenario, a kid grows up getting hit on the head with a hammer every day. If they don’t die, the creature neurology will regard a daily dose of hammer hitting as proven to be survivable. Not getting hit on the head with a hammer, it has no data. It cannot imagine because that is not the part of the brain that imagines. If that kid grows up, leaves the house at eighteen, goes a few days without getting hit on the head with a hammer, the human brain is like, “Eureka, finally.” Your creature brain starts getting nervous and that person will find themselves hanging around hardware stores looking for people with hammers. If they can’t get somebody to play that game with them, they’ll spend a whole lot of money on therapy explaining, hitting themselves with the hammer. As soon as that happens, the creature is like, “We’re good for another 23 hours and 59 minutes.” It makes the human nuts. The human goes to therapy. The human journals, the human joins groups, hammer hitters and those who love them. The creature runs its patterning.

We tend to not let ourselves have more than we think we deserve. Click To Tweet

Let’s take this away from a theoretical of the hammer-hitting. Let’s say someone who was raised by a narcissist or someone who was raised with someone in an abusive childhood and then they’re magnetizing an abusive partner. How would the change work? What would be some of these things you would recommend to input new software so they didn’t have to keep magnetizing or repeating those childhood behaviors?

When it comes to picking a partner, the human parts of us pick a fine individual with whom we can love, grow and share. The creature goes looking for mom or dad. It’s called imprinting, generally, whoever was more dangerous. Guess which part of our brain is in charge of the chemistry? It’s the creature. It’s not the human brain, which is why you can often find somebody on it. On paper, they are such a good person and there’s no chemistry. It’s because the creature can’t find some version of mom or dad. It is called imprinting. We share this with every creature on the planet. They did these studies with baby ducks. When the baby ducks were hatched, the mother duck wasn’t there. What there was is a yellow balloon that scientists would pull along with a string and little ducks followed along. When those little ducks grew up to be big ducks and it was time to look for a partner, they went looking for balloons and not ducks. That’s imprinting.

The same thing happened in California. They were raising condors in captivity because they were endangered. They would raise them until sexual maturity and release them. Then the condors would go looking for lab technicians because that’s what raised them. They raised them and they feed them with these dorky looking condor puppets, at least it’s more in a general direction. Human being share this with creature. Some part of us is always going to look for mom and dad. The work that I ended up doing a lot with people around this is called re-imprinting. What you’re doing is you’re giving the younger parts of the brain a visceral experience of surviving more the relationship they want to have. You have your inputting. These are pictures and sounds and feelings and even smells and tastes, if we can, of what it looks like, sounds like, feels like, smells like, tastes like when you’re being loved and cared for in the ways you want.

Here’s the thing about the creature neurology. The reptile neurology cannot tell the difference between a real, imagined or remembered experience. This is the only reason going to the movies is any fun at all because your cortex can go, “I’m 25 miles inland in an airconditioned theater. Shark attack is relatively low.” Creature brain sees a shark on the screen and has an, “Ah” response. That’s what gets your heart rate up anytime you watch a movie or even read a book. It’s the picture you’re making in your head as you read that the creature neurology responds to. It can’t tell the difference between what “actually happened” and if you create a different experience for that part of the brain that was developing them. There are ways of doing it. It’s not something you can do on yourself like, “I’ve been doing this for 25 years now. When I have something come up, I go see somebody else.” You will be blind to your own blind spots. This is something that a skilled practitioner can do so that your system naturally starts magnetizing different kinds of people in the relationships or different money.

I love the concept of, “He or she or they look so good on paper.” Your cortex is like analyzing the paperwork. The creature brain is looking for the danger. That’s a human thing because we’re so confused like, “They looked so good. They felt so good. They were such good conversationalist and they turned into a narcissist. How did that happen?”

He wasn’t drinking when I met him.

TL 173 | Money Magic

Money Magic: Clearing Your Path to Money, Time and Happiness

Let’s shift a little bit to money. You have a book called Money Magic. It’s available on Kindle and in paperback. My experience of money is pretty much one is somewhat growing up with money challenges, charges and growing up with a lot of connotation around money. Now, as a professional consultant helping small businesses with money, people are fucked up around money. That’s the main thing. Can you give us some introductory viewpoints about what you see in terms of people and their relationship to money and things that pops up over and over again?

People have all kinds of conflicting experiences around money and a lot of them are not good. There are three main ways that people get themselves stuck around money. The first is that old creature patterning, those old beliefs, those old associations that we grew up with. How many times do I hear this a day working with clients, “You have to work hard to make money?” This is so not true. How many people do you know who are working their buns off, but weren’t making any money? There are people making good money who frankly aren’t working that hard. It has nothing to do with hard work. That’s one of the biggest ones. All these old associations, “Money is hard to come by. You have to sacrifice to get money. Money causes stress. Money causes problems. Money causes envy,” all of these old associations become beliefs. Eventually, they are so automatic. We don’t even see them as beliefs. People will say, “It’s the way it is. That’s how you do business. That’s what you have to do to make money.” Those are core beliefs. Whenever someone tells you, “That’s how it is,” you’re hearing a core belief. You’re hearing their core belief about how the world operates because there is no one way anything works. That’s the first way is these old associations.

A lot of them we picked up at home because that’s where we learned almost everything. Since most of our patterning is in those first three to six years and that’s the people who were around, it doesn’t even have to be that mom or dad were fighting. It could be that they are sacrificing. They are not doing what they want because they think they can’t earn money. It comes in a lot of different flavors. We can talk more about any of these three categories. The second main way that people get stuck around money is around their sense of worth because we will not let ourselves have more than we think we deserve. I made very few people who have a true sense of worth. Your sense of worth, that one is in place by three years old. What you think you deserve in life, how much money, how much love, how much health, how much good things, how much happiness do you think you deserve, your system has decided that by about three. You show me a three-year-old who is undeserving of love and good things in the world. Those decisions are made in response to the experiences we find ourselves in those first three years.

It’s not always even that we had a narcissistic parent. We could’ve had a very loving parent, but a parent who didn’t have a sense of their own worth. There is no way that a kid can get a sense of theirs. When we have an impaired sense of our own worth, if we get more than we think we deserve, we will find a way to make it go away. We will get sick. We will incur a big bill. Something will happen. You read all the time about celebrities or athletes who make a lot of money young, and then they blow their lives up fantastically. In Britain, they have a term for people who win the lottery and then spectacularly screwed their lives into the ground. Those are people whose worth cannot support the foundation of their identity. The worth that their identity is based on is not strong enough to support that amount of attention, money or fame. They get it to go away or it cracks the foundation. It’s like if you’re building a building, the bigger the building you want, the stronger the foundation will be.

Sadly, we experience our belonging most viscerally when we are like the people we come from. Click To Tweet

I’ll tell you a story. It’s a useful metaphor. I had a friend who bought a house that everybody tried to talk her out of. It had a few problems. There were burned out mattresses and furniture in the front. There was a flea infestation. There was arsenic in the well water. There were bare wires stuck into electrical outlets. There was a heater giving off lethal doses of carbon monoxide. Here’s the thing that got me the most. The house is built on a slope and part of the house was sitting on the ground and part was supported by beams in the post. The load bearing beam that the house was supposed to be resting on, there was a six-inch gap between the load bearing beam and the bottom of the house. What someone had done to bridge that gap is they had put in twenty quarter-inch piece shims. Shim is a piece of wood, a quarter-inch thick, a few centimeters thick and a little square. It’s like what you would put under a restaurant table to keep it from wobbling. They put twenty of those in. She said, “There was even a matchbook in there. I remember seeing it.” Twenty of those were what was between her house and its foundation. This is in California where the Earth likes to move around a lot. I saw that as a problem. That was the first thing she fixed.

Most of us in our identity, we have places that are sitting on solid ground. We have places that are held up by shims and matchbooks. The more weight that gets put on there, the older we get and the bigger our lives get, if the foundation is shaking, the entire structure is shaking. That’s your sense of worth. The third way that people get themselves stuck, and this is probably the biggest, is something called unconscious family loyalties. As human beings, we have an incredibly strong pull to belong. People will die to belong. Sadly, we experienced our belonging most viscerally when we are like the people we come from. We tend to compute our belonging in terms of conformity. When we have it better than the people we come from, on an unconscious level, our belonging feels threatened. It feels wrong to have it better when other people are struggling. We’ve all heard about survivor guilt. If someone survives a tragedy, they feel guilty because they survived and others didn’t.

Same is true around money. If our families struggled around money, it feels, for some part of us, wrong for us to have more. You go to a restaurant. If one person’s food comes before everybody else, very few people will start eating because it feels weird. We know that food is coming. Imagine if we didn’t know if they were ever going to get food, then it starts to be even weirder to sit there and enjoy your ribs or whatever it is. It feels weird. This unconscious signaling system is one of the biggest things that limits people’s money. The ways they will try and ensure their belonging by not having it too much better. It’s not conscious. Quite often consciously, they’re all on board but no, I want more. Unconsciously, it’s a tough gig.

I know people reading, hopefully you’re not feeling the gut punches because I did. I have all three. I can feel them all. I have been working on myself for twenty years and they’re still there. I sold my shares in a company and then started a second company that failed miserably. Was it the luck of the draw? Was it bad timing or was it that I didn’t believe I was worthy of living a life of ease? It is so important the work or what you’re doing of revealing because we get so mad at ourselves like, “I’m not doing enough. I’m not working enough.” It’s like chasing something. Underneath the foundation, there’s a bunch of shims that have your whole foundation rocky. Thank you for expressing that so clearly, which hopefully will enlighten readers. I’m hoping there’s a lot of, “Oh,” so people can make some appropriate changes rather than beating themselves up that they’re not succeeding.

Many people who say, “I worked on this for twenty years,” I was like, “I know.” If you haven’t rewritten the software, it’s never going to change.

TL 173 | Money Magic

Money Magic: If we get more than we think we deserve, we will find a way to make it go away.

You have me questioning my techniques with coaching, how to up-level those specific things, NLP training is something that both Morgan and I are interested in to develop these skills because I can see the benefit of the unconscious programming that’s running the show.

Consciously, you can pay attention between five to nine things at any time. Unconsciously, your system is processing upwards of two million things per second. That’s where our huge processing power is. Once we get that to start working for us, to start working towards what we want, then our conscious worth becomes pretty much getting clear on what we want.

The book is a big thing, the big gift to the world on how to up-level people’s ideas around Money Magic. You also teach a workshop. You’re doing that internationally. You’re in California in April and September. Did you say Hong Kong and Taiwan in March?

Taiwan on March 23, 24 and Hong Kong March 30, 31. We’ll also be with a translator in Hong Kong, a translator into Cantonese and in Taiwan with a translator into Mandarin.

In the different cultures, the three you mentioned, let’s look at Hong Kong versus California versus London. Three distinct cultures. Do you still see the same attributes? Are they different based on different cultures in terms of people’s relationship to money?

They are mostly the same and there are some cultural differences that are quite striking. For instance, in the United States when we talk about these unconscious family loyalties, they are unconscious and people get it and it’s a new concept. In Asia, it’s explicit. It’s like, “No, you will take care of your parents. No, it is your job to make them happy. It is your job to do what they want.” It’s not subtle. It’s explicit in Asia that it is seen as the children’s job to make their parents happy.

It’s so ingrained in our society, independence and also ownership. I wanted to speak about one exercise that has such an impact on me. I don’t know if you can do justice in here, but it had a huge impact on me. It was one where we’re talking about father and money, the confusion of connecting. A lot of my father’s love for me was imbued through money. He used the money to communicate his love for me. At the same time, when he was unhappy with me, he used the money to withhold the money and the love at the same time. I’m going to butcher this exercise, but it’s like, “You’re my dad. You’re not money. I’ve confused you with money. You’re my dad.” Maybe if you could speak briefly about this powerful exercise, what’s behind it and how it can impact people.

This is the three-chair exercise. That’s one of the exercises that is in the Money Magic book. Anybody can download that and go through it or order it off Amazon. It was originally a Fritz Perls technique called Perceptual Positions that I adapted to money to see how people were relating to money, their unconscious relationship to money. Often what it pops up are some ways they are relating that they’re not aware of. A common example is their experience themselves is disconnected from money or they’ll experience judgment coming from money. One of the things that I discovered is that when you hear that, what you were hearing is someone in the family. When there’s no family stuff, the energy of money always shows up as this warm, sweet, benevolent energy.

When anything else shows up when there’s some disconnection, some judgment or something like that, that someone in the family’s energy is being projected on to money, usually a parent or sometimes grandparent. Sometimes some people have multiple people’s energy projected on to money. This exercise gave away the first off notice, whose energy is that you’ve been projecting on the money and to start to name that, “That’s not money, that’s my mother. That’s my father. That’s not money, that’s this.” To start to mentally separate those and even visually so someone can start to have an experience of money separate from their relationship with their parents. When somebody says, “I feel disconnected to money,” I will say, “Who were you most disconnected from?” It’s not subtle. It’s fairly straightforward. A lot of money stuff is father stuff and it’s not always father stuff, but a lot of money stuff is father stuff.

TL 173 | Money Magic

Money Magic: Start to have an experience of money separate from their relationship with your parents.

Some people are like this. Sometimes it’s mothers, but usually it’s fathers that this is their way of expressing love. One of the complications of that is if that is the only way a parent can express love, then children often will keep themselves in a position where they need that from their parents so that their parent has a way to love them. This can continue well into adulthood. That’s one of the sad consequences. The child will always make sure that daddy can love me in this way or dad has a way to love me. If money is it, then I’ll always need his money since I always want his love. Getting some of that sorted out and straightened out, it begins to make possible for somebody to have their own relationship with money and their own experience of this incredibly beautiful, warm, supportive energy that money is.

First off, when you said money is bright, magical, and light, my first impression was like, “What? No, it’s not. Money is challenging and difficult.” The more you talk, I’m like, “That’s the bias. That’s number one, old negative beliefs around money.” Also, that exercise alone is worth the book. It was so impactful. You sit across from money. You take your dad’s energy out of it. It’s with this one exercise where it epically changed how I looked at money because my dad was to the left. He was being a dad and being Joe, doing what he’s doing. Money was by itself and the isolation of his energy out of it. The point was so powerful and that alone is so magical the work you’ve done.

Thank you. That is one that I still do every couple of months on myself just to see because occasionally my relationship with money will drift. The revelation, it did come from doing this workshop all over the world and over and over again of noticing that when all that stuff gets cleared up, the energy of money always shows up as this incredibly warm, sweet, a little detached. It doesn’t have an agenda, but so there, so present and available. That was a real eye-opener for me because it’s not waiting for us to earn it to deserve it. It is one of the ways the universe wants to love us. It’s right there. That’s been a huge revelation. I was in Hong Kong teaching and I did this exercise. Ever since I started doing that Money Magic, it spread like wildfire. It’s showing up in a lot of different coaching seminars now because it’s so easy and it’s so powerful.

I was in Hong Kong and I did it. After I did it with this woman and she felt disconnected from money originally. Afterward, this fellow who raised his hand and he said, “I don’t know what her problem was. I just want to run and grab it.” He said, “I don’t have a problem with money.” I had him come up and do the same thing. I said, “What’s it like when you’re across the money?” He says, “I want to run and grab it. I love it.” I said, “Instead of that being money, let’s have you imagine that over there is the energy of blessings.” He went, “Oh,” and sat back. He said, “That’s a lot calmer.” He was mistaking fear for enthusiasm, but when it became the energy of blessings, which is what it’s like, then his system could calm down and notice the energy better. Until then, he would have thought he loved money and it was fear and desperation masquerading as enthusiasm.

I’m so grateful. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Do you want to let people know how they can find you?

My website is MichelleMastersNLP.com. You can also email me through there. The book is on Amazon. You can get it if you don’t want to wait. It’s on Amazon in the US, UK, Canada and Australia. That’s where it’s listed. You would pick the one closest to you and get it there.

Thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been an honor. Thank you for doing what you do.

Thank you, Robert. It was a joy of being here.

Thank you so much for joining me. I had a good time. I thought it was amazing. It was a great representation of who Michelle is in the world and the work she does. Please check her out on her website. For more shows, please visit RobertKandell.com. Leave us some reviews. Leave us some stars on your favorite podcast app. Thanks so much.

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About Michelle Masters

TL 173 | Money MagicMichelle Masters has been an NLP Trainer and Master Practitioner since 1995 at the renowned NLP Marin, and now also teaches internationally throughout the year. She combines Neuro-Linguistic Programming, Family Systems work, Matrix Energetics and a variety of other modalities into her work to create lasting change for people in all areas of their lives. Michelle teaches and has clients all over the world–in the U.S., Europe, Australia, New Zealand, India/Asia, Africa and South America, and will be featured in an upcoming documentary. Jeffrey Slater and Chris Duncan have nicknamed her ‘The Coaches’ Coach’ because so many of the top coaches in the world have trained and worked with her.

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